[paul of cemy end]

can i just say well done to John and Fred. Some people said on the message board something about them obsessed with the power at Gigg (or something allong those lines). They have put a lot of money into the club. I no some people including myself have questioned their leadership, but in my opinion they have got the clubs best interest at heart.
Although if this new bloke takes the club forward then they will be proven right in the sale but does anyone know if the club will tell us who the other two parties were and how much cash they had to spend?

Thanks Jon and Fred.

[Jon]

I'm sure that if somebody takes over we wont find out how much the other interested groups had but to be honest it wont matter. The club will go to the best offer but it wouldnt surprise me at all if the groups join forces as has been rumoured elsewhere.

And just because somebody takes over it doesnt mean we'll have any money to spend at all, it'll be used on wages and keeping the club running. This of course is the most important thing.

[stonekeeper]

I thought it said that John and Fred were staying?

[RaRa]

if this new bloke takes the club forward then they will be proven right in the sale .

Lets get it straight - there has been no 'sale' of the club. The new guy has simply come in as Chairman in place of Fred and John because it is deemed that he has something to offer and can take the club forward.
If he is putting any money into the club it will be minimal. John and Fred will still be around to help if and when they are needed. The ground is being prepared to move the club forward and we may well see some other new blood on the board in the near future. :wink:

[Eaves_wig]

Yes no shares will change hands. No one will get rich out of it.

The club still has millions of unsold shares available. It wants these to be taken up so that money goes into the club not to a third party.

Those running the club have taken some completely unjustified stick in the last few weeks. They have done a sterling job in keeping the club afloat.

We now have a man who will have come in and put in a cash sum to relieve the pressing debts, taken up a proportionate number of the aforementioned shares, then I would assume will set about running a streamlined organisation within its means.

We'll eventually be able to see how much money he's put in when we see his share capital amount in future accounts.

Good luck Albert!

[blackpudding]

i think it's fair to say gordon has printed of a number of threads from this board and stuck them in front of john and fred, some with good ideas but a lot just giving them some stick.

it'd be nice if gordon could pass on a thread that simply said "thanks fred and john for helping to keep the club going" because whether or not somebody could have done a better job, they are the ones who did.

[craig]

i think it's fair to say gordon has printed of a number of threads from this board and stuck them in front of john and fred, some with good ideas but a lot just giving them some stick.

it'd be nice if gordon could pass on a thread that simply said "thanks fred and john for helping to keep the club going" because whether or not somebody could have done a better job, they are the ones who did.

Well said, that man.

[tommy]

Yes I'm sure that since the demise of the fat controller everything that John and Fred have done has been with the best intentions of Bury Football Club.
Thanks

[RaRa]

Well said that man.
Whilst I haven't always agreed with how they have run the club, there is no doubting that John and Fred are true supporters and have put a tremendous amount of time and effort, all unpaid and with precious little thanks, into trying to keep Bury FC alive. I am sure that they have always acted in what they thought were the best interests of the club, and they have shown that they are willing to continue doing just that in agreeing to stand down and give someone else the chance to come in with hopefully new ideas.

[Jon]

And i'm sure they'll stick around to help whenever we need them and get behind the new chairman and the team. Thats a loyal fan.

[craig]

This might seem a bit trivial to some, but a mark of what the likes of Fred and John do/have done for our club can maybe measured by the fact that at the recent end of season presentations for the under 7s through to under 12s, Fred was present all night. He made a presentation at the end of the night (the Fred Mason Shield) but he spent the whole night there chatting to people and generally showing his face.

If he couldn't care less, then why would he bother showing up? It was hardly a pivotal task within his role as joint chairman but he still made the effort in his own leisure time.

Like I say, maybe trivial but I think it says a lot.

[Ulstershaker]

John Smith and Fred Mason have done a great job since El Tel waltzed across the Pennines. They have taken a lot of undue stick and have stepped aside for the progress - and hopefully - the security of Bury FC.

John and Fred are Bury FC to the bone and at least now they can watch their beloved Shakers in a bit of peace!

Thanks to both of them!

[nc11]

They stepped into the breach when there was nobody else around and made a huge contribution towards saving the club.

Thanks to them both!

[buryboy]

Just a word about Fred Mason,for about 7 years I was involved in running a team at Bury fc Juniors.Fred attended every meeting that he could in his role of chairman of Bury Juniors,every fund raising event was supported by Fred,often buying tables at the dinners for his employees.

Bearing in mind that at the time BFC Juniors had very tenuous links to Bury Football Club Fred did as this as sense putting something into the community and not for any other reason.His aim was to get 150/200 kids playing football at the weekend and hopefully a few of them might take an interest in supporting The Shakers.

A damn good guy in my opinion.

[stonekeeper]

I thought i had logged on to the wrong message board for a moment :lol:


Not one anti post.

About time people started thinking positive and most of all appreciative.

Hope it does work out and that this stops all the speculation and worries!


Good luck Mr Doweck and all who remain.

[Fred White]

I can also confirm that Fred came to the Presentation Night for Bury Girls and Ladies FC and stayed for the whole evening chatting to players, parents and officials.
A good bloke.

[plastic_manc]

OK, I'm going to assume that 90% of the people on this thread have got it right i.e. that Fred and John stepped in when nobody else wanted to and that they are both lifelong Bury fans whose main aim was to try to keep an air of stability at the club and ensure that it doesn't go out of business. There was a rumour that at least one of the players last season was being paid directly from one of the chairman's pockets - if true, I can't see how this was offset by free travel and entrance to matches. They see a lot of potential in the offer from Albert Doweck and step aside to allow him in and remain on hand to help if needed. We're still assuming that Fred and John are acting in the best interests of the club.

What happens next time there is a situation like the one where Terry left for Sheffield? Answer: No-one wants to step in and keep the club going as Fred and John have apparently done because abuse continues to reign down from certain quarters.

What happens when the club needs to urgently raise money and the last time this happened, one of the key figures behind the fundraising efforts is subjected to incredible vitriol and unsubstantiated accusations of deception? Answer: No-one wants to step in and help the club because abuse continues to reign down from certain quarters......

Do you get my drift?

[Ashpan]

RJL,

And your own business acumen is?........

I am a firm believer of the notion that you shouldnt criticise other people for doing their jobs, unless you could do that job better than them.

If so, put your money where your mouth is, pump money and time into the club and let us take our turns taking pop-shots at you for a change.

To Fred and John,

Thanks for your time and perseverance.

[Fred White]

From what I can see Fred and John never set their stalls out to be owners or Chairmen of Bury FC. They were genuine fans and put in what they could afford, which is certainly more than most people on this board have ever done.
When Terry left at the worst point of our financial crisis, they were dumped on from a very great height. If anybody on this board offered to work free of charge (except for free admission to matches) to sort out the mess, run the club on a day to day basis and pay players out of their own pockets, I certainly didn't hear about it.
It may be the case that they didn't run things very well, but I believe they acted out of the best motives. The reason the budget was not met was because we did not offload Newby when we should have done, and we signed Dunfield and Abbott on loan (twice) when the expenditure had not been allowed for. I believe that these decisions were pressed on the directors by the manager. If there is a fault it was proabably that they didn't tell AP to shove it.
The position has been addressed by Neville getting involved again and brokering the deal that has now gone through. It is easy to criticise but as I understand it some on this Board were rejected as suitable purchasers of the majority shareholding so now new owners have been found perhaps we should be told why their original offer was declined...surely no need for further confidentiality.

[uts2002]

I think it is fair to assume that both John and Fred where thrust into a position that neither wanted when TR (spit) left for sheffield. They have now stepped aside to enable someone new to have a go at being Chairmen because that person wanted to do the job.

What I would say to any knockers of Fred and John is how many other club chairmen would you find participating in a sponsored walk to Rochfail like Fred did or shaking buckets outside Old Trafford like they both did.

One thing that can not be disputed is they are Bury Fans and I thank them for their efforts.

[buryboy]

HERE HERE.

[giggabyte]

They both get praise from me, took on a task and were thrust into the limelight which I'm sure neither wanted. They acted as a controlling influence over the difficult times.

Well done Fred and John and thanks for everything.

Good luck to the new man, and hope he takes us forward at a reasonable pace..and one we can afford.

[RaRa]

RJL
I don't know where you get your info but you would make a good scriptwriter for 'Jackanory'.
Firstly, the amount of shares someone owns gives no indication as to how much money they have put into the club. Witness Chris Moore at Oldham - yes he owns most of the shares but the £4.5 million that he put into the club was an additional loan.
Secondly, the new Chairman being installed did not stop us being in breach of the terms of agreement reached by the courts. As far as I am aware he has no 'backers' and has put little if anything into the coffers.
The money that has allowed us to breathe a little more easily has come from a totally different source, and was in place before AD came on board.

[shakingallover]

A big, big thank you to both Fred and John. They, like most of us, are passionate Bury supporters. Nothing more, nothing less. The snipers can fire off shots from a distance all they want. But Fred and John fixed bayonets and got stuck in. Its wasn't a pretty job. But someone had to do it. To their credit, and Nev Neville (is that a plague of locusts I see settling on my roof?), they kept my club going. I will be forever grateful to them for that.
So now we have a new man at the helm. I personally know little about him. But I wish him the very best in his efforts to raise the fortunes of our beloved club. He will have my total loyalty, respect and support. That is conditional on him showing the same to my club. Can we not, for once, put on a united (small u) front and get behind the man. And thank Fred and John for their efforts.
Its not all sunshine and roses though. I do have one bone of contention with Mr Mason. Now that the burden of being chairman of Bury FC has been lifted from your shoulders .... would you ever f***ing smile!!! :lol:

[paul of cemy end]

Paul of Cemmy End- How do you arrive at the opinion of Fred and John having put in a lot of money in to the clubn???
Accounts show Mason has about £7k worth of shares, Smith about 12k- hardly big money by anyones standards.
The free travel and entrance to all home and away games, year after year after year are easily offset by this anyway.


Sorry rich boy, but 12k is a lot of money to me and you don't see many people putting that sort of money into the club. As it was i was not talking particularly about shares when i said they had put a lot of money into the club. They put a lot of money in last year for players who helped us get into the play offs like most of the month to month contracted players.

On starting this topic i was simply trying to say that we should not forget about John and Fred and gloryfy AB as our saviour, without the endeavours of John and Fred i doubt there would be a club left. I was saying many have criticised them but they didn't want the job and have given up the helm soon as the right man came in and we shouldthank them for there work

As for Albert Doweck my one brief encounter with this man gave me the impression that this man was a genuinely nice guy and i will quote my grandad who has had many business dealings with this man saying to me "You won't go bust with Albert running the show" as he is a smart bloke with a lot of Business sense.

[tommy]

RJL - you seem to be blaming Fred and John for the position Bury are/were in. They were left in the lurch and took on something that I did not see anyone else wanting to touch. Yes they made mistakes but at least they were there.

[freedom from here]

Lee/RJL,

Under what circumstances will you "NOT" criticise Bury FC? You have put nowhere near £12k into the club, you helped ostracise a decent sponsor and you continue to peddle your fanzine that spends its entire life trying to denegrate people who are putting time and effort into helping their hometown club survive and eventually flourish.

Not content with sniping from the sidelines you claim to have the money and wherewithall to take over the club and yet you give NO evidence of your financial acumen or business experience.

You were at the forefront of demanding the removal of TR because he earned £50k and yet you are demanding that two men who have never taken any money from BFC and only put in, are removed too.

How much would you pay a "Chief Executive" or other similar person to run Bury FC. How would you find the money? What are your credentials for choosing such a person?

No-one is suggesting that Fred and John were the best thing since sliced bread however they did something that you singularly been unable to do and that is put your head above the parapet and say "this is who I am", "this is what I will bring" and "this is the benefits of having me in charge".

As someone said previously, your bid has been rejected, tell us now the facts. If they are as good as you believe we'll all be clambering on your bandwagon and chanting "Sack the board" until you are installed.

If you get us, the fans behind you, you can't lose. What are you waiting for?

In reality we'll get more vitriol and a lot of hot air but we need to be convinced by you. You have spent years alienating everyone associated with Bury FC... how are YOU going to build bridges?

[paul of cemy end]

Well said that man.

[Fred White]

RJL, Lee whoever you are...
I think we are all pretty tired of your constant abuse of everybody connected with Bury FC. I can't see how your actions over the last few years have brought anything positive to the Club and the vast majority of its fans.
Given your track record, it won't be long before Mr Doweck starts to suffer. We are entering a new era for the Club, please don't ruin this for us.

[RJL]

Freedom from here- Have you not had your obsession with Mr Davenport treated by the psychaiatrist yet?- Evidently not , EVERY post you have put on here refers to him and constantly accuses me and others of being him.
Which part of I AM NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM do you not understand.


Those of you who are either incapable of understanding the implications of the evidence presented before you or have their own agendas, I'll let you continue to put the world to rights through your keyboards.

I welcome the appointment of Albert Dowech and will continue the positive dialogue I have enjoyed with him over the last few months.

[freedom from here]

Just answer the questions posed above RJL. If you are so confident why not reveal who you are?

[ron]

No, maybe you don't have anything to do with a Mr Davenport RJL, but you do have something to do with Lee Devenport (correct spelling). As I mentioned the other week, you defended him on this message board in August last year.
If you're not his mate, then tell us who you are.

[Fred White]

RJL, the implications if the evidence seem to be these....
You are involved in the running of the club, or are very close to someone who is.
You tell us that some months ago you tried to buy the Club but your offer was rebuffed. You decline to tell us why your offer was turned down, citing a confidentiality clause as the reason.
You tell us that you have had a dialogue with Mr Doweck for several months so we must conclude that either, Mr Doweck was involved with your bid, he sought your opinion on his his current involvement or it was you approached him to get involved. I understand that Mr Doweck is looking to appoint new directors so, presuming you actually have got some money, you now have an opportunity to join the Board.
Whilst John Smith and Fred Mason have been removed as directors, they remain officials of the Club so the fact that you continue to slag them off suggests that either you simply don't like them and wish to snipe anonymously, or you are paving the way have them removed from the Club altogether.
If you do surface in some capacity at the Club, we will all have an opportunity to review your track record and the statements you have made on this board, and judge you like the previous directors on what you actually deliver.
If you, or whoever feeds you information, continue to criticise individuals who most of us believe were simply doing their best, then I fail to see how you are helping the future of Bury FC.

[blackpudding]

coxsapples

are you sure you’re not LD? your spelling is as bad as the fanzine and you talk as much crap.

i'm presuming gordon is going to delete your post, i certainly hope so, there is no room for personal insults of the sort you have just written.

attack people's views and actions by all means but you really go too far. are you 14 years old by any chance? (mentally or physically)

bp

[blackpudding]

so you're comparing yourself with the level of a child? you'll get no argument from me.

grow up and let's have an adult debate or fuck off.

actually, just fuck off.


[EDIT: neither this, nor my message above, make any sense now that coxsapples' posts have (rightly) been deleted!]

[freedom from here]

Still avoiding the answers then Lee and assorted cronies?
What business credentials do you have to run Bury FC. If thats what you hated about TR and now Fred Mason, why don't you let us know what excellent businesses you claim to be a part of?

If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. What solutions do you have?

You'll never gain control because no-one wants/cares for your brand of vitriol, even the administrators gave more credence to Beau's bid than yours. How did that feel? Ha Ha

D. Murray

[freedom from here]

Lee/Cronies,

I think you'll find I am not the one here complaining about the current management / problems Bury FC find themselves in. I sympathise with anyone willing to put themselves forward for a position at Bury FC because of the flak that you and your kind give out.

If you have a problem with the way Bury FC is run why not tell us what your solution is? You have been rejected by:

T Robinson
The Administrators
Forever Bury
The SOS Trust

and now Albert Doweck....

When will you get the message that attacking people will get you nowhere whereas working with people however much you don't agree is the way to get things done.

Your constant sniping and outbursts ensure that you will never get control of Bury FC for as long as the SOS Trust trustees exist... so let us know what your plans for Bury FC would be and the fans can then decide whether to support you or not.

Ian Cox is an appropriate name though isn't it?

[Fred White]

Can you imagine what it would have been like if the administrator had accepted an offer from these guys.

[freedom from here]

Lee/Cronies/Cox,

I've never confessed to have a masterplan, but here are my thoughts.... its very simple. Since you have the money, perhaps you can put it into place:

Ensure that expenditure does not exceed income. If this means that we have to employ youth players and we have to let star names go on frees or for low fees then do it.

Do not sign any players until the players/managers wages are under 60% of turnover.

Employ the best chief executive that your money can buy. I recommend that if you can attract the right candidate they should be the highest paid club official. The staff at the club should be cut to ensure that their wages are kept reasonably tight.

No player should be signed on a longer than a 2 year contract.

I would spend as much of my available money on marketing... particularly to schools, youth initiatives and such bodies. This may mean giving away free tickets on a larger scale.

All additional income (other than league gate receipts) like Cup runs, transfer fees should be ringfenced and devoted in their entirety to capital projects like youth development schemes, YTS schemes, improved facilities....

Above all the key to all of the above is ensuring that all interested parties who have the good of Bury FC at heart should be brought together and lead by the Chief Executives.

No one body (other than Forever Bury) can own more than 49% of the club regardless of how much they put in. Ensuring that Hugh Eaves / Chris Moore situations are harder to instigate.

I think this is a reasonable starter for 10. I would follow this up with banning certain troublemaking elements within this club including the racists and others who give Bury FC a bad name.

This club should be a community club owned and shared by Bury folk. I have lots of other ideas however I'm not critical of those in charge at the moment. Its a tough job however I absolutely detest those who snipe from the outside with no valid or considered input that would improve the club.

The time is ripe for this club to get back on an even keel. Its time for us to work together not snipe. What are your plans Cox/Lee/Cronies?

The

[Stevo]

I see Cox/RJL etc still haven't enlightened us with their wonderful ideas to take us forward.

At least Mr Murray has put down some ideas which would be implementable within the club's framework. What have you come up with?? The usual ramblings with nothing to back them up.

And before you start, I haven't got any plans, financially or otherwise to mount a take-over or get involved in any way. I'm just a plain old boring supporter who's sick of hearing the garbage you talk with no substance behind it.

Either back up your facts or stop coming on here telling us how you're in dialog with the chairman and how useless everyone else is. Stick to your fanzine which I'm sure has an enormous circulation amongst you and your pals.

[blackpudding]

coxsapples,

"I'd ban racists and have posted this view on here before."

that's a good start. what about sexist and homophobic views? or do we have to wait a few decades for you to catch up with the rest of decent society?

john

[DJAsh]

It seems fairly typical that all this vitriol should start flying when there finally seems to be a chance for some stability at the club. :roll:

[blackpudding]

coxsapples,

blackpuddin .... don't recall any homophobic views and the sexist stuff was tongue in cheek.

can you tell me what a fudgepacker is then please? as used by you the other day in your now deleted post.

lighten up man and try and get a sense of humour.

oh coxsapples, trust me i have a sense of humour, a pretty good one too, i like to think. say anything funny and i may just laugh.

john

[blackpudding]

coxsapples

i wasn't aware that was his nickname. very strange. if that is the case i will happily withdraw my charge of homophobia.

it doesn't change the fact your posts are routinely sexist and offensive, whether or not you put it down to a joke.

i think it's plainly obvious why your posts were deleted.

john

[ThLegendaryNormanBullock]

YES! At last the old guard are removed!

The way they were giving our players away we would have struggled for a five a side team.
I wouldn't have give Mason and Smith presendencies. more like a kick up the jacksie and told em to stay away for good !

Blokes down the pub are now gonna come back cos they finally believe that Robinson and his hangers on aren't ruining our club any more!

[PeterROwen]

We have a brave new chairman - he has to be brave to put himself in the firing line with regard to certain contributors - who will, it is to be hoped, will take our club forward to success. Now everyone should expect the best from what's left of the team but not be too worried if things do not always go all that well. This is a new era and I, for one, am happy about it. Up the SHAKERS!

[coxsapples]

I/ ve just had 3 posts deleted,
no explanation, no nothing. There was no bad language in these.

Mr Sorfleet and HIS cronies seem to have an issue with the truth.

CENSORSHIP IS DEPLOYED BY FACISTS WHO WISH TO IMPOSE THEIR OPINIONS ON OTHERS BUT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH OPEN DEBATE AS IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO THE TRUTH!

[Stevo]

Previous post deleted.

Craig - your post below is quite right and I've got carried away again and descended to the wrong level! Decorum restored... 8)

[PeterROwen]

I see a lot (in fact, the majority) of mail to these boards sent anonymously. Are people frightened of something?

[blackpudding]

peter,

technically none of the messages are posted anonymously. all users have to have a valid email address to sign up. the use of a nickname is not the same as anonymous.

john

[Sir Vic Alsmear]

I/ ve just had 3 posts deleted,
no explanation, no nothing. There was no bad language in these.

Mr Sorfleet and HIS cronies seem to have an issue with the truth.

CENSORSHIP IS DEPLOYED BY FACISTS WHO WISH TO IMPOSE THEIR OPINIONS ON OTHERS BUT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH OPEN DEBATE AS IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO THE TRUTH!

If you're referring to the two posts I deleted on this thread, it's because I felt you were getting a little too personal with your insults. We all like a laugh, but they were offensive in my opinion. As anyone who knows me will tell you, I'm no-ones 'crony', I can form my own opinion as to what's acceptable. I'm sure everyone who read the post will agree you overstepped the mark. I obviously wasn't the only one.....

i'm presuming gordon is going to delete your post, i certainly hope so, there is no room for personal insults of the sort you have just written

I asked Gordon on Monday to remove me as an administrator, I only offered to do it during his sabbatical so people didn't get out of hand. The only posts I've deleted in that time are yours, read into that what you will

[PeterROwen]

My thanks to John Blackpudding for the correction to my use of the word "anonymous". However, the use of pseudonyms or aliases or any name other than your given name is, to my mind, an attempt to hide one's identity. Why?

[blackpudding]

peter,

i don't believe it is. it's very common on the internet for people to have pseudonyms or aliases. some people certainly use them to hide but they are a minority. most people, if asked, would say who they are.

some people put more details about themselves in their profile.

a lot of regulars are known behind their aliases. gandalf, to use one example, is simon egan, forever bury secretary and an administrator of this board.

my view is that if your want to know who the person is, ask them. i have done when needed. others i already know.

bp

[PeterROwen]

Thanks to blackpudding, I take your point even though I may not agree with it. But I can understand if it is done without the malicious intent evident with the contributions of some. Incidentally, I'd figured out that Simon was Gandalf. He's a great guy and a one-off!

[coxsapples]

Stevo You speak for nobody other than yourself.
As I put in one of my deleted posts. You have done nothing to save this club-by your own admission. The people who you boringly keep referring to as one of my cronies were there to save the club in its hour of need,
Selling seats, getting leaflets printed, and getting more fans to the game through a United Fans day.
I agree with Peter Owen in that I see no reason why people should try to hide their identites and I use the nickname I've had since school- 'apples'-
with my surname added before this.
It wasn't me who tried to make any issue out of who I am, I have been accused by people such as Stevo and FFH (or D.Murray as he says) of being someone I m not.
I am a lifelong Bury fan Stevo, you by your own admission supported Liverpool as a youngster, I come from three generations who have raised money for this club and have done what they can to preserve its status, while you on the other hand have been busy taking an interest in what was taking place at Anfield.

[Stevo]

That post just about sums you up.

You have your own opinions and won't accept any other point of view. If you can point out to me me where I said I was a Liverpool fan as a youngster, I'd love to see it. As for hiding behind nicknames, that's your trick isn't it? If anyone wants to know my name, just ask, not that it would make any difference to anyone as I can't see that anyone would know me anyway!

I've been watching Bury since before I was old enough to remember and have had a season ticket for at least the last 20 years (I'm now 30 by the way).

What exactly have YOU done to save this club then, how were you involved in the seat selling? That was launched by NN - one of the poeple you seem to have such a dislike for.

As I have said repeatedly, and as you point our below, I'm not involved and won't be involved in putting together packages or trying to get involved in running the club.

My point, as repeatedly made, is that you go on and on about the various regimes at the club and how bad they are, and how you could be doing so much better, but where are the facts?. Someone above made the effort to write out a list of ideas of how they would try and change things - where are yours??

I'm speaking as an ordinary fan and a message board user, when I say that your (and various others) claims' of facism, insulist views etc etc are getting very boring and very annoying.

Either back up your claims with hard evidence or go and annoy people somewhere else.

[craig]

I haven't posted on any of these threads previously (by "these threads" I mean the ones which have involved Coxsapples/RJL/TheLegendaryNormanBullock etc) but I feel that there are 2 valid points to be made:

1) The 3 people mention above, in my opinion, have some reasonable arguments to make. To what degree of accuracy these arguments are made I know not and for one good reason. I simply don't know enough about the club to pass comment/judgment. But from what I have read, some of the things posted by them are sound and logical.

However...

2) The reason that everyone gets so fed up with the posts that are made is down to the personal insults and mud slinging that invariably ends up ruining the discussions.

Everyone at some time or other has made claims on here about one thing or another, about "my mate knows Andy Preece's best mate's dog, who said that...." and so on. (Apologies to anyone that hasn't!!!!). Whether people's posts are factually accurate or not is a bone of contention to some more than others, but while people are being lambasted on a personal level, nobody will be inclined to listen to or accept anything that is said by the "insulters".

Threads/posts are only ever removed because of content which will upset one or more people. I have never had a post deleted on any board, ever. That might sound holier than thou, but I believe that I have never caused offence to anyone by the things I have posted. Not everyone will agree with every word I post and people are and always have been free to tell me so, but once a debate drops to the level of name-calling or non-fact based speculation, then it runs the risk of being deleted.

It is nothing to do with censorship, again in my opinion, but more to do with common courtesy and manners. Anyone who posts on here must accept that they are open to disagreement from other board users. If everyone's opinions were the same we would all die of boredom. It is really a matter of how you choose to express those opinions that dictates how well your opinions will be received.

I fully expect to receive comments regarding this post. Some of them will say "I agree with you have said etc" but some of them will disagree. That is the nature of debate.

Apologies if this post sounds like a Reverend Lovejoy sermon but it's not often I'm motivated to write serious things.

There's nothing I can do to influence how people post and I wouldn't dream of trying to, as it's not my place. It would, however, be good to see some harmony, in light of the new era sweeping through the club. Whether you disagree with the way things are run or not, you are entitled to your opinion but keep it on a "business" level and don't give anyone the opportunity to delete your posts.

[PeterROwen]

Craig,
Thank you a piece of excellent, cojent mail. Let us hope that it sets an example for others. Discussion and even vehement disagreement need never dissolve into insulting language. If points are there to be made, make them, but with courtesy and respect for others and their maybe different opinions.

[coxsapples]

Stevo You say you support Liverpool and St.Johnstone in the post
Your Top 5 Other favourite teams.

I haven't hid behind a nickname, I've clearly stated on more than one occasion when people like you have accused me of being someone else that my name is Ian Cox.
So what is your name Stevo? I'm now asking you as you said you would say who you were if anyone asked you on here.

What have I done to save the club.
I was out with a bucket at Old Trafford along with 60 other 'ordinary' fans (as you like to call yourself) Were YOU?
I was selling seats along with other 'ordinary fans' who were part of the fund raising effort. We went into pubs, supermarkets, workplaces and sold those seats. It is quite obvious from your 'that was NN's idea.' quote that you have little knowledge of the tremendous effort that 'ordinary supporters' put in to actually save this club. The 'ordinary supporters' took time off work and physically went out and did those things .
DID YOU STEVO? 'Ordinary Supporters' such as myself were at the club three and four times a week during the administration period putting all this in place,where were you Stevo? Judging by you 665 posts on this message board , you were putting the world to rights while others were actually doing something about it.
I have already made a list of the things I think may benefit the club, I also went through point for point the ideas raised by Freedom From Here agreeing with some and adding finer detail to others, this came in addition to the points I have raised both on here and at a FB meeting. Those points include Income not exceeding outgoings. Something Mason and Smith failed to adhere to despite them promising this when taking over the reigns,. I put forward that staff's wages should be more incentive based and therefore should see better performances. I 've said we should do a Shareholder scheme that saw Lincoln realise £250,000 and even put forward the finer detail of this scheme. I've said that kid a quid should continue and also proposed a interim price for students of £7.50 or half the applic gate money.
Some of these ideas were listed in one of my deleted posts, there was nothing offensive in this post as has been the case with other posts from others that have 'mysteriously' disappeared.

Sir Vics Alsmear- when yourself and Gandalf were administrating my posts were NOT the only ones removed. Some one posted a message under the comments on Gordons departure saying that Gordon deserved a medal for not missing a game while being in the navy for 20 years and made a quip about getting back to a ship in Egypt for a Wed morning after being at a game on a Tuesday night deserved an award in itself(the subject being discussed the merits of whether he should have been UEFA supp of the year. I saw this post and it wasn't from me and then 'mysteriously' a hour or two later it had gone. There was nothing offensive or malicious in that one line posting.
I can also only assume that its quite acceptable to term someone a nob.
as Stevo has done.

It seems obvious to me Sir Vic Alsmear that there are differant standards being employed in the terms of the censorship being put in place.

[kezmoz]

DON'T STICK UP FOR THEM TWO MUPPETS THEY ARE THE ONES WHO REALEASED NEWBY AND THEY HARDLY PUT A PENNY INTO THE CLUB.

MASON AND SMITH FOR SUFC!!!!!

[Stevo]

That's what I've been waiting for!

All I was asking was that you back up you ramblings with some facts - which you have started to do in your last post.

Yes I sold seats, yes I buy a season ticket every year and donated whatever I could afford into the buckets, but I don't ask for any thanks for any of it - that seems to be the difference. I couldn't care less what people think of what I do or don't do to help the club, that's my own business, hence why I don't rave on about it on here.

I'm quite happy to tell you my name - Stephen Mills. I'm sure you're highly enlightened now, as I am by your name. I have no idea who you are and you have no idea who I am, but hey, at least we know each others real names.

As for supporting Liverpool - the topic said top 5 other clubs - I happen to like Liverpool and St Johnstone, but I would in no way class myself as a supporter. I have and will only ever support one club.

I hardly think my number of posts has anything to do with it - if we're working things out that way, then Gordon - you must do bugger all mate!

If you looked through all my posts, you'll notice that the vast majority are on weekdays between 9 and 5 - when I'm at work.

As for calling you a nob - that related to your ridiculous facist comments and I deleted it earlier after reading Craig's post and realising that it probably wasn't the most mature thing to say.

To save the trouble, I'll just ignore your posts in future.

[Gandalf]

Maybe I should put things across from my perspective. I have no problem with people being critical about issues and I certainly have no problem with debate (no matter how heated it gets) as long as basic rules are observed.
However, any posts that I personally find to be offensive will be deleted. There are many people using the messageboards who do not wish to log on and be subjected to personal insults, pornography, racism, etc. I am very broadminded and if I am offended by any posting then I will have no qualms about removing it.
I have allowed many posts to remain the content of which I do not in any way agree with but to me that is one of the roles of messageboards such as these.
Coxsapples, the main problem I have with your postings in particular is that quite often you seem to view it as acceptable to direct a torrent of abuse towards individuals. The sad part is that you make very many valid points which get dismissed because of the manner in which you choose to put your message across.
I do not know anything about ?mysteriously disappearing posts?. If I had deleted them then I would have taken copies so that when issues such as this arose then the evidence would be there to counter your claims. As for your posting of the other day the only reason that I did not delete them is that Sir Vic beat me to it. I had just gone to copy them for reasons outlined above when they were deleted. From that alone it means that two different individuals both deemed that they warranted deletion which should be justification enough in itself.
I am certainly not here with the intention of censoring anything but to ensure that people can log onto the boards without worrying about the content which may be contained in the next message string.
Many people were involved in the desperate and frantic fundraising efforts and some of us have continued to have input into the club and are proud at what is beginning to emerge. Hopefully this will also signal an era for supporter unity as well.
It is a mere 23 days to the season beginning and I for one can?t wait. See you at Swansea.

[craig]

As for calling you a nob - that related to your ridiculous facist comments and I deleted it earlier after reading Craig's post and realising that it probably wasn't the most mature thing to say.

Stevo, I wasn't really aiming any comments of mine at you. But upon re-reading the whole thread, then I think you were right to delete that particular post. If everyone moans about insults being made by the 3 people I mentioned in my post, then it's only fair that people don't insult them personally too.

It takes a big man (or woman) to admit they're wrong, so I applaud your actions.

Again, this post sounds like I'm preaching, so please forgive me as that isn't my intention. I can't think of any other way to word it, so if people want to tell me to keep my hooter out and stop playing the role of Kofi Annan, then I'll gladly shut up. Although that will be a first!!!!!

[craig]

Hopefully this will also signal an era for supporter unity as well.
It is a mere 23 days to the season beginning and I for one can?t wait. See you at Swansea.

Amen to that.

[Stevo]

We all get a bit wound up sometimes, I just always forget to count to 10! :lol:

I'm saying nothing else on the subject, I'll leave the arguments to those in the know! I just want to watch us playing football and I'm happy to leave the running of the club to those empowered to do so.

[Sir Vic Alsmear]

Sir Vics Alsmear- when yourself and Gandalf were administrating my posts were NOT the only ones removed. Some one posted a message under the comments on Gordons departure saying that Gordon deserved a medal for not missing a game while being in the navy for 20 years and made a quip about getting back to a ship in Egypt for a Wed morning after being at a game on a Tuesday night deserved an award in itself(the subject being discussed the merits of whether he should have been UEFA supp of the year. I saw this post and it wasn't from me and then 'mysteriously' a hour or two later it had gone. There was nothing offensive or malicious in that one line posting.
I can also only assume that its quite acceptable to term someone a nob.
as Stevo has done.

It seems obvious to me Sir Vic Alsmear that there are differant standards being employed in the terms of the censorship being put in place.

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. In the time I was an administrator on this board, I only found the need to delete 3 posts, all yours. Forget any conspiracy theories, as far as I know, I've never even spoken to Simon, let alone met him. I did not delete any posts about Gordon, I actually didn't see that thread in question, just the one about it being deleted. I have no axe to grind with anyone who posts on here, I think eveyone has something to contribute. I just find distasteful personal insults offensive. Something else you have to remember, if anyone really took umbrage about a comment directed at them, there are legal avenues they could pursue against the club. No matter who pays for this board and server, it is still the 'official' board. Remember the trouble www.friendsreunited.co.uk had last year? Someone needed to monitor this board, no-one else volunteered.

[Leyland Titan]

Remember all this?
Those were the days!

[Laurence]

Well this is one row that can't be blamed on me - My admiration for the joint chair is unlimited - Many thanks chaps

[RJL]

I'd ban the pair of them from Gigg lane forever-after all its not as if we are going to miss their admission fees, they never pay any.
Complimentaries home and away week in week out and that includes all their travel as well.





:D

[V Shaped Badge]

Incorrect.

Mr and Mrs Fred made their own way to Kidderminster and had lunch with us in the pub beforehand. Not much evidence of "freeloading" there. Just someone who wanted to support the team.

[paula_m]

:? Craig.... which ones were they? the couple talking to you & Dunc as I arrived :?: